Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

All boost related things here. Turbos, SuperChargers, FMUs, Megasquirt, et al.
ETAt801
n00b
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:28 am
AntiSpam: No

Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby ETAt801 » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:48 pm

I only check this forum like every other day and its nice to see my thread got locked lol.
I have over read the locked thread and would like to answer/clarify a few things.

I AM A TURBO "TECH" NOOB
I know how they work, and how to put them on and route piping and all that just when it gets into the details like size, td03/04, trim, and how much psi the bigger or smaller sizes push.

I agree with the stick with the valves you got statement. I came from a nissan 240sx to bmws and in that community there were two kinds of people: the hard headed beastly uber torquey guys who stuck with the single cam motor or the swap people. The ratio of swap to single cam was probably like 200:1 lol. So I like being different by staying the same.

When I said 220whp that is just a complete estimate. I have read enough build thread questions and its always the same. "I wanna put a super charger on my car how do i do that how much hp will i get" and the response is always "what is your power goal? figure that out and base your build around that to reach desired HP". SO when I say 220 that is just a number that I would like to pull. If I get more then GREAT!! If im able to slap an even bigger turbo on because my motor can handle it and I throw down 300hp COOL!! I figured 220 was a very reasonable estimate to begin with.

Next topic, when I said "stock turbos blah blah pushing about 7 lbs" I mean: Most people I talk to that have VW`s, saabs, volvos and other like cars that came from the factory turbo`d are pushing 6-9lbs. Thats being no modifications what so ever. My logic here was, if companies are making turbo cars they have to have some longevity and reliability or else it would just be illogical to put a turbo in... right?? So if most manufactures are putting out cars with 6-9lbs maybe 10 or 11 then I figured if I stay in the same range I can have MORE reliability and more longevity of motor life.

And lastly, I was reffered here from someone on bimmerfest . com
Sorry for asking so much from a forum. Please god forgive me that I didnt know and/or go to e30tech the allmighty holy grail of e30 turbo info. lol :lol: :lol: (Im being sarcastic)
I would enjoy to stay on this forum and learn as much as possible. It sucks that my thread got locked cant we all just be nice and help out a noob without fighting with eachother.
User avatar
Yoshi
Site Admin
Posts: 9087
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:47 pm
AntiSpam: No
Location: North VA
Contact:

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby Yoshi » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:59 pm

lol yea theres a big history between us and E30tech. I will tell you theres more first hand experience over tech. Its a good resource for its stickies and looking at similar cars and seeing their output.

Plain and simple, with some aftermarket engine management and 15psi on any reasonable turbo, you can do about 300whp. I've seen T3/T4s put down that and HX35s put down about that much at the same boost levels. Only real mods you need to do to the motor is head studs and maybe an MLS gasket if you want to lower compression. Altho those numbers are on an "i" motor not an eta.

My suggestion is still a motor swap then turbo down the road. or at least an i motor. the hybrid motor is too much money for not enough gain. You can def do more with the same price on an M50 type engine.

Also, DOHC kas for boosting are much better than single cam KAs :). I'm not an SR fan.

oh and sorry for locking your last thread. hopefully this one will stay clean.
Image
Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!
ETAt801
n00b
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:28 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby ETAt801 » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:22 pm

Yoshi wrote:Altho those numbers are on an "i" motor not an eta.

My suggestion is still a motor swap then turbo down the road. or at least an i motor. the hybrid motor is too much money for not enough gain.

Also, DOHC kas for boosting are much better than single cam KAs :). I'm not an SR fan.

oh and sorry for locking your last thread. hopefully this one will stay clean.


Well when you say those numbers are on the i motor, If im swapping on the i head wouldnt the numbers be the same or similar?? From what I have read the only thing holding back the eta is basically the head: bad porting, economical cams, bla bla bla. Nothing wrong with the block though performance wise compared to the i motor is there??

I dont see how it costs so much?? besides the turbo, take that out of the equation. It would cost just as much or more for me to find and i motor and all the nessicary parts, ecu, and harness would it not?? Am I just missing something here?

DOHC ka> SOHC but I wasnt lucky enough to get one. I got sohc on all three that I had/sold. Sucked lol. ka>sr20 any day

And agreed. I just dont see why some people have to get so hot headed over some simple questions and knowledge. I only want to learn... :cry:
User avatar
Yoshi
Site Admin
Posts: 9087
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:47 pm
AntiSpam: No
Location: North VA
Contact:

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby Yoshi » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:39 pm

An eta i hybrid will put out decent numbers. But in stock form, still not as much peak as an i motor (iirc). The eta i hybrid motor is basically a 2.7 crank and everything else is from an i. You have to swap over SO much stuff and if you do it right, you have to get custom pistons. For the cost of all of that, you can get a dohc motor swap and have MORE than the eta i hybrid motor. I estimate the most basic M50 swap can be done for around $1k. With that, you have a chain driven motor, 24 valves and much better aftermarket.

15psi on my M50 motor put out 350whp with a cracked manifold. I can easily get 400whp out of the same input into an M20 motor.

In short, the 24v motor will cost the same or less and give you more.
Image
Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!
User avatar
Tchao
E30 Guy
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:11 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby Tchao » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:59 pm

There is not OE turbo that runs 7psi stock worth getting.

220hp is nothing. Swapping to a S50 motor (90's M3) will give you 240hp+ ALL DAY with zero reliability concerns, 200% better low-mid range and throttle response etc...

If you want 300+hp, a turbo M20 would be perfect.

You do not have to get an I head, but would be much more beneficial.

I would recommend a Garrett 60-1 T4 with a .63 T3 exhaust housing with a P-Trim turbine wheel. You stay within the most efficient island on the turbo compressor from 5psi to about 1.8bar boost on stock cam'd 2.7i hybrid motor.
The turbine is good for 400hp, anymore id go to a 82 housing.

My recommended shopping list:

-60-1 turbo (E cover)
-eBay ProTurbo/666 copy manifold adaptor
-MS-1 fuel and spark control standalone prebuilt with warrenty from DIYAT.
-AFX wideband o2
-ProSport oil pressure gauge
-Oil feed solution (part#'s on e30tech for summitracing.com)
-Same intercooler option SoLive and I ran (available from E30tech)
-VAC motorsports ARP head studs for M20's
-Welded head (see e30tech for pics unless Yosh has pixors here)
-TCD or SouthBend Clutch (recent thread on e30tech on popular turbo clutch options)
-3.73 LSD or 3.25 LSD...dont get the Eta 2.93 LSD, wayyy to long.
-Good suspension setup...IE3 springs with Bilstein sport shocks are cheap and very effective
-225 or bigger tires.

That setup above should be good from 250hp to 400hp.
E30 M50nv
ETAt801
n00b
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:28 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby ETAt801 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:57 am

You have to swap over SO much stuff and if you do it right, you have to get custom pistons

I thought it was basically drop the block off of an i motor and slap on the eta block. All the upper stuff stays there, manifolds, wiring, ect. ect. And I have also read that you only have to get custom pistons if you are: boring it out, want to reach the stock compression of 8.8:1 or w/e it is exactly, or want EXACT specs on size compression ratio and other such details. Stand true or proven wrong??

There is not OE turbo that runs 7psi stock worth getting

Maybe I have mis-phrased my words or something but I have and havent had any intention of running any sort of "stock" turbo what so ever. I would be obtaining an aftermarket unit. Boost controller?? No?? Just turn down the boost and run 6-11 psi daily driving. That is all im stating so Im not sure where this whole emphasis on "stock turbo" is coming from. p.s. not trying being a douche so please dont e-fight me and get my thread closed :thumbup:

Swapping to a S50 motor (90's M3) will give you 240hp+ ALL DAY with zero reliability concerns, 200% better low-mid range and throttle response etc...

most basic M50 swap can be done for around $1k. With that, you have a chain driven motor, 24 valves and much better aftermarket.


Guys I completely understand. The m20 sucks and the m50/s50 is way better. more stock hp, better drivability, better tuning, more aftermarket parts ect ect ect ect.
Im pretty set on building an m20. As I have said before I have a pretty done up m50 in my e36 and im just not very interested in building another. Thanks for the refferals though

If you want 300+hp, a turbo M20 would be perfect.

And on my final note ^^^^^ this sentence made me laugh. It just confuses me. I "estimate" a power goal and say 220whp. All day you guys sit here and say its garbage, go m50, too much money not enough power then this statement was said. lol isnt that completely contradicting previous statements? I ask for 220 and everyone says it sucks but hey!! ask for 300+ and NOW its a good looking idea lol.
User avatar
Tchao
E30 Guy
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:11 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby Tchao » Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:59 am

My eyes hurt.
You need to learn how to use the forums.
IDK where to begin...Ill start with the last statement you made.

220hp is NOT worth turbocharging and the miles of headache associated with it. If thats all you want, then go swapped.
Get it?

Now if you want 300hp, M20s are perfect, cheaper to turbo, easier to tune, and generally simpler for the beginner.
This doesnt mean 24v isnt better but hey you want to stick with the M20...I get that. I had one too.

As for stock turbos, maybe I mis-read your statement, disregard what I said then.

No, you dont need custom pistons and shit...just buy an "I" motor used, do a leakdown....if it passes boost it, if not rebuild it. That way you have a car to drive, and a project to tinker with.

I gave you a list of whats reliable...now go do some more research and have fun.
E30 M50nv
ETAt801
n00b
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:28 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby ETAt801 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:14 am

Hey man dont take me the wrong way. I completely appreciate all your help and refferals.
220hp is not my "cap" or hp limit that I am trying to reach. I WANT more horsepower its just that I dont know all the technical specs to better estimate a more realistic power goal.
By all means if its easier, cheaper and all that then why would I want to go the harder route for less power??
So lets re asess the goal.
I want to do a 2.7i hybrid turbo build. I want to put down 280-320 hp and then smash unsuspecting honda`s when they try to rev on some "old beat up bmw"
Sound better? More realistic?
User avatar
Yoshi
Site Admin
Posts: 9087
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:47 pm
AntiSpam: No
Location: North VA
Contact:

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby Yoshi » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:42 pm

A stock 2.7 should beat any honda lol.

*shrugs* you can build your 2.7i. I just think the cost of the motor just isn't worth it. If you want to whoop unsuspecting hondas, just boost an eta from the start. The stock eta will make good power without the i parts.

I'm just very biased against the 2.7i motor.
Image
Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!
User avatar
nogapersnBMWs
I <3 E30's
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:37 am
AntiSpam: No
Location: Denver and Dillon Lake, Kolorado

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby nogapersnBMWs » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:55 pm

Yoshi wrote:If you want to whoop unsuspecting hondas, just boost an eta from the start. The stock eta will make good power without the i parts.


Ditto :twisted:
ETAt801
n00b
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:28 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby ETAt801 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:19 pm

boost the stock eta? but... redline at 4500 FTL
User avatar
Tchao
E30 Guy
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:11 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby Tchao » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:09 pm

Stay away from the Eta at all possible. You stated you dont even have an E30 yet...why purposefully buy something that requires work, when for cheaper, you get the complete package?

M20b25 ("I" motor) go for around $300-500. Just get that, and "refresh" it.
DO a leakdown to determine where to put the money. If you hear it leaking from the valve cover breather, then its your rings. If you hear it leaking from the exhaust manifolds, its your exhaust valve(s)....vise-versa for intake.

Since you wont have a car down, you can take your sorry time to build/fix it right. Take the valves out, and spray oven cleaner on it to remove the 20 years of caked on shit. Have a machine ship regind the valves. Then cut the seats, 3 angle, and lap the valves back in until your arms are sore. Weld the coolent channels and Deck the head flat (resurface)

Should be a perfect seal after that.

Assemble everything back together and you have a new rebuilt head ready for lots of boost.

If its your rings, be prepared to do a full tear down and rebuild.

PM replied.
E30 M50nv
User avatar
Yoshi
Site Admin
Posts: 9087
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:47 pm
AntiSpam: No
Location: North VA
Contact:

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby Yoshi » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:02 am

+1 with tchao.
Image
Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!
User avatar
nogapersnBMWs
I <3 E30's
Posts: 136
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:37 am
AntiSpam: No
Location: Denver and Dillon Lake, Kolorado

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby nogapersnBMWs » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:32 am

nogapersnBMWs wrote:
Yoshi wrote:If you want to whoop unsuspecting hondas, just boost an eta from the start. The stock eta will make good power without the i parts.


Ditto :twisted:


Sorry. Thought u ALREADY had an e30 w/ an ETA (and could install dual "i" valve springs = 6,000 rpm limit). My bad...

+2 on tchao...
youareafool
n00b
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:46 am
AntiSpam: No

Re: Back For More (please dont lock this one lol)

Postby youareafool » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:55 am

I was going to write something here but +3 with the man Tchao.

Return to “Forced Induction”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests