"Basic" Turbo Setup, List of Parts Needed?

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Re: "Basic" Turbo Setup, List of Parts Needed?

Postby M20_fever » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:55 pm

well put.
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Re: "Basic" Turbo Setup, List of Parts Needed?

Postby dmcl » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:17 am

this is why im asking about it.. these are old cars so im sure its been done a thousand times before. someone must have a rough guide to a setup that will work, prob a little more rich than needed but as long as its not too much i wont mind.

i have tunerpro as i mentioned before but still needing an emulator/chip burner. even just the burner because i have maps for 19lb injectors that have been tried and tested. i could get the TCD chip and read it then tweak it to run 19lb injectors just by opening one of the 19lb maps i have already and copying the relevant values over the the copied TCD map. can be more than 19lb just using that example because it seems the most popular for an N/A M20.

also i wouldnt be scared of doing a walbro pump upgrade + RRFPR if needed..

anyone know of any sites or threads where someone has built such a setup and maybe has some insignt on what injectors to go for, what way to set up the RRFPR, etc.

also would a plain old A/F gauge (not wideband) be accurate enough/sufficient to have in the car to monitor possibly hazardous lean/rich conditions? i know wideband is extremely accurate but i havent really heard how accurate/inaccurate the ordinary cheapo setups are? accurate enough to let me know of a potentially too rich or too lean condition coming on so i could back off the throttle before something goes pop?
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Re: "Basic" Turbo Setup, List of Parts Needed?

Postby Yoshi » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:32 pm

dmcl wrote:this is why im asking about it.. these are old cars so im sure its been done a thousand times before. someone must have a rough guide to a setup that will work, prob a little more rich than needed but as long as its not too much i wont mind.

The problem is, you don't know till you start it up and drive it. It only takes one really bad tune to kill a motor.
dmcl wrote:i have tunerpro as i mentioned before but still needing an emulator/chip burner. even just the burner because i have maps for 19lb injectors that have been tried and tested. i could get the TCD chip and read it then tweak it to run 19lb injectors just by opening one of the 19lb maps i have already and copying the relevant values over the the copied TCD map. can be more than 19lb just using that example because it seems the most popular for an N/A M20.


My only concern is that the stock AFM doesn't read boost. Once that trap door opens fully, thats it. It can't open any more. That trap door design opens fully at WOT at peak NA load. It won't read boost. AFAIK anyway...
dmcl wrote:
also i wouldnt be scared of doing a walbro pump upgrade + RRFPR if needed..

Most turbo guys tend to over engineer. I would start with both of those anyway. at the very least that fuel pump to keep up with demand. But by the time you get there, you might have already blown up your motor.
dmcl wrote:anyone know of any sites or threads where someone has built such a setup and maybe has some insignt on what injectors to go for, what way to set up the RRFPR, etc.

E30tech has a bunch of build threads with people that do similar setups. I believe the most common is a 10:1 RRFPR with a stock chip. Don't quote me on it tho.
dmcl wrote:also would a plain old A/F gauge (not wideband) be accurate enough/sufficient to have in the car to monitor possibly hazardous lean/rich conditions? i know wideband is extremely accurate but i havent really heard how accurate/inaccurate the ordinary cheapo setups are? accurate enough to let me know of a potentially too rich or too lean condition coming on so i could back off the throttle before something goes pop?


The stock oxygen sensor has 3 readings: rich, lean, stoich. Thats it. Not really lean, or kinda lean. Just lean. If you hook up an AF gauge to it, all you will see is a blur of lights flashing around. If you are REALLY lean or REALLY rich, it will "stick" to one side. But by that point, you can tell by how the car is acting if its rich or lean. It isn't useful at all. Start with a wide band. 100%.

I remember being like you when I started out. You are REALLY budget minded. Unfortunately, you need to spend money on these things or your motor will blow. Don't cheap out on fuel management and a wide band. They are the most critical things on your setup. $600 at DIYautotune.come can get you a wide band and premade megasquirt. Well worth the money.

Also, READ. I hate to refer ppl to other sites but e30tech has a great sticky section for boost info. On top of that "Maximum boost" by corky bell is THE BIBLE for boosting. Read it, learn it, reread the damn thing.
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Re: "Basic" Turbo Setup, List of Parts Needed?

Postby M20_fever » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:41 pm

upgraded fuel pump is unnecessary for a setup like he is going for, stock pump can flow up to 500hp, Dan proved that last year.

one big problem with the setup you are going for is IF you get it to work at say 8psi (most I would go) you will get used to it really quickly, and at that point you SOL because there is no room to grow. You will end up spending much more money in the long run rebuilding the whole system properly to handle more boost than if you just save a little longer and do it right the first time. Just my .02
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Re: "Basic" Turbo Setup, List of Parts Needed?

Postby Yoshi » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:47 pm

eh. I don't trust the stock pump.

But yea 8psi won't be much. plus a barely tuned 8psi will be very low on power. 200whp I'd say.
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Re: "Basic" Turbo Setup, List of Parts Needed?

Postby dmcl » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:51 pm

200hp thru a 4.10 diff tho :wink:

i worked it out.. my 4.10 gives a 9% reduction in gearing over a 3.73 so with a stock motor at say 170hp with a 3.73, add a 4.10 and u the 9% reduction in gearing is equivalent to adding about 15hp.

i know chips and all that will only help on part throttle.. its full throttle that is my main concern which is why im talking about larger injectors but i dont know what size. u can tune the maps for larger injectors so its not incredibly rich at part throttle or idle but u need the extra fuel at WOT on full boost.
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Re: "Basic" Turbo Setup, List of Parts Needed?

Postby Yoshi » Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:03 pm

yea but once you hit boost, any chip/tune will go "hmm. I see no boost"
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Re: "Basic" Turbo Setup, List of Parts Needed?

Postby dmcl » Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:03 pm

i was under the impression that at part throttle up to about 80% (remember reading a percentage, maybe no 80 tho) the chip runs things. above 80% the ECU switches to a WOT map and basically throws everything it has at the engine so to speak.

with that line of thinking this is why im asking about injector sizes.. im thinking if i went for boost i could run a modified version of the TCD chip for larger injectors. that would mean once i figured out how to work out what size injectors would sustain 8psi of boost and be a hair on the rich side at full throttle i would have plenty of fuel at WOT and have just the right amount at part throttle, low load, etc..

basically what im thinking is get injectors (pump too if necessary) that will dump enough fuel for 8psi at full throttle and essentially back off the fuel map as needed on the part throttle and idle maps with a wideband as guidance. maybe leave it a little rich on part throttle just to play it safe. ie- start from a point where WOT will be fine but everything under it would have to be set. no danger of running lean at WOT that way..
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Re: "Basic" Turbo Setup, List of Parts Needed?

Postby M20_fever » Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:06 pm

4.10 is way to short for a turbo car, your going to have to shift like lightning to keep up with the revs.
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Re: "Basic" Turbo Setup, List of Parts Needed?

Postby dmcl » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:23 pm

thats not a problem.. all but like 2 of my previous cars were 5 spd plus i have a Z3M stick which is like 70% shorter throw than the stock one.
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Re: "Basic" Turbo Setup, List of Parts Needed?

Postby nomade30 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:41 am

The problem with stock ECU is once you go into WOT mode the ecu switches over to a single 1x7(possible might be 8 or 9) map that is RPM dependent. Since the turbocharger in it's basic form is a load based performance add on, even with a RRFPR, you'll never be able to tune it great.

Sure I personally ran motronic with an TCD chip for 6 months and about 10k miles. I was not getting the most out of my motor, and all I wanted was to switch over megasquirt, not only to make tuning easier, but also to make my tune more precise. I would suggest you take the dip and hook up megasquirt, change out the head gasket, and get some head studs. After all that's done that's when I would actually think of turbo charging it.

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