Turbo setup for $700-900?

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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby blasphemy101 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:07 pm

I think just about any modern-ish OEM turbo should be able to take the abuse, but the issue is longevity. It seems like most modern OEM turbos are only lasting 80k or so, so keep that in mind when looking for a turbo. Turbos from turbodiesels (Holset...) seem to last forever, even if my H1C was apparently on its way out...
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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby M20_fever » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:57 pm

I don;t want a small turbo Yosh, lol. Bottom end grunt is pretty good on my engine, and only better with 15psi off the line running anti-lag.

I agree, the diesel turbos seem pretty stout in terms of the abuse they can take. My 7.3 has a mild tune and lives around 26psi happily, and has for 275k miles. I have friends running way more aggressive tunes on high mileage turbos with no ill effects. Guess I'll just keep an eye out for a good HX30 or HX30/40 hybrid.
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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby Yoshi » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:19 pm

"small turbo". The HX35 was put on a 7.3 liter diesel engine putting out 35psi from the factory. It's fucking huge when you put it next to a GTX. That's why you want the biggest compressor but smallest exhaust. It's all relative man.

IIRC diesel puts out less heat. Which works great for journal bearings.
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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby blasphemy101 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:44 pm

M20_fever wrote:I don;t want a small turbo Yosh, lol. Bottom end grunt is pretty good on my engine, and only better with 15psi off the line running anti-lag.

I agree, the diesel turbos seem pretty stout in terms of the abuse they can take. My 7.3 has a mild tune and lives around 26psi happily, and has for 275k miles. I have friends running way more aggressive tunes on high mileage turbos with no ill effects. Guess I'll just keep an eye out for a good HX30 or HX30/40 hybrid.


I'm sure you know this, but I'll make the point that your engine responds the same to 15psi, regardless of the size of the compressor. That is assuming the intake charge is the same temperature. The benefits of a larger compressor come from its efficiency at higher flow rates and pressures. Ultimately, you can run a smaller turbo and take advantage of the great spool-up, as long as you have the cooling capacity to manage the lower efficiency. With my H1C, my intake temps were a few degrees F over ambient at full boost (which is crazy low). Now, even with my much smaller 20g, my intake temps are only 30 degrees above ambient at most. That's not great, but I am sure better flow to my intercooler would solve the problem.

An HX35 compressor is overkill as it is, and considering the types of turbines it can be combined with, you wind up dealing with lag but without taking advantage of the benefits of the headroom the compressor provides. Bottom line: I don't see much use for the HX40 compressor.

I remember looking into the HX30, but I couldn't find any confirmation of the flange dimensions, so I never got very far with it. If the turbine is significantly smaller than the HX35 turbine, it might be a viable option.

I remember looking at the Toyota CT turbos used on the Supra and MR2, they seemed like a perfect fit for a 2.5 M20, but they're water-cooled and obviously have Toyota flanges. If you can find some way to cool them and make a flange.
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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby M20_fever » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:40 pm

The problem is in an on track condition the engine lives between 5-7k rpm, so if I start with a smaller turbo it will be at the inefficient point in its curve most the time...combine that with the heat soak of pushing the smaller turbo for extended (2-3min) times and I have concern. A slightly larger turbo will be less responsive at lower RPMs, but much more efficient in it's intended environment, and anti-lag will eliminate much of the poor response down low since I'll already be on boost at launch. Obviously street driving may suffer, but the car sees limited street driving, and being a letter up race car I try to stay out of it on the road since it already draws too much attention.

Having said that: http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/4974465076.html

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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby M20_fever » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:46 pm

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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby blasphemy101 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:56 pm

M20_fever wrote:The problem is in an on track condition the engine lives between 5-7k rpm, so if I start with a smaller turbo it will be at the inefficient point in its curve most the time...combine that with the heat soak of pushing the smaller turbo for extended (2-3min) times and I have concern. A slightly larger turbo will be less responsive at lower RPMs, but much more efficient in it's intended environment, and anti-lag will eliminate much of the poor response down low since I'll already be on boost at launch. Obviously street driving may suffer, but the car sees limited street driving, and being a letter up race car I try to stay out of it on the road since it already draws too much attention.

-grin-


I don't necessarily disagree - you know more about your situation and use than we do. Just make sure you're not making compromises everywhere - there might be a happy medium between the two. I'm autocrossing this weekend, and if I have time, I will try to get some more air to the intercooler, then we might have real data...

Another tidbit of advice...larger turbines don't just take longer to start spooling, they take longer to spool up in general. Even after you get to the point where the exhaust gas is overcoming the inertia of the turbine wheel, it will still accelerate slower than a smaller turbine to "operating RPM."
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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby M20_fever » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:20 am

Yeah for sure. I'm speaking only in theory and research, so real world experience is valued.
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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby Yoshi » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:03 pm

In my experience. even the HX35 was super laggy for me. I don't think it's tiny at all. But I guess you want T04 style not T3. *Shrugs* you do have a few more CCs but it won't make a huge difference.

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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby M20_fever » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:49 pm

More than the extra displacement, I think all the head work is what will allow me to use a slightly larger turbo.
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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby blasphemy101 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:24 pm

I'm going to have to break out my thermodynamics textbook if you guys keep arguing!
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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby Yoshi » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:39 pm

:) I could keep going but I don't think I will change his mind.

I vote temp HX35 for cheaps and go from there. Get a different turbo as funds permit.
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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby Dontrusthise30 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:22 pm

I have a 2.8 with head work and cam, and I think the hx35 sized turbo is just about perfect if not slightly too big. I'm running a t3/t4 garrett, and it's more than enough turbo. At 18psi I have no drop off at all in the high RPM's.
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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby M20_fever » Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:02 pm

For Some Reason HX35s are hard to find around here.
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Re: Turbo setup for $700-900?

Postby Ryki » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:55 pm

I have a turbonetics t3/t4 in the basement I may never rebuild, want it for free? I can even toss in a BOV if you wanna pay for the shipping for everything :D

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