Lowered suspension corrections

Springs and shocks. What keeps your car tight around corners?
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AustinR
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Lowered suspension corrections

Postby AustinR » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:18 am

My rear tires are already killed from all the camber I have (in the rear especially) from lowering my car. This is my daily, so that's not awesome. haha. I don't want to buy a new set of tires every few months.

Is this the reason people raise their rear sub-frames? And if so, what are the negative effects?
Also, for the front, can camber plates correct this? I'm not as concerned about the front as the rear as the front tires seem to be holding up better, but it would be nice to have my car sitting proper.
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Lowered suspension corrections

Postby ten2doyle102 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:00 am

I don't know if you can get positive camber since most usually want more negative, but I'd be willing to make ya a custom set to give you less if you want it. Any idea what you are at now, numbers wise?
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Re: Lowered suspension corrections

Postby M20_fever » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:02 am

yes, raising the subframe will eliminate the camber you gained when lowering, and I think you can use some adjustable camber plates backwards to get back to 0 camber. Some camber front and rear will help performance handling, so find a happy medium you like. For a race car like mine the camber from the drop is pretty much perfect, except the bot more camber I want up front, solved with BPP fixed camber plates. Just have your tires remounted with the worn tread on the outside, lol.
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Re: Lowered suspension corrections

Postby AustinR » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:14 am

ten2doyle102 wrote:I don't know if you can get positive camber since most usually want more negative, but I'd be willing to make ya a custom set to give you less if you want it. Any idea what you are at now, numbers wise?


I'll definitely let you know if I want to do that. Thanks for the offer! I like the performance characteristics of the camber up front, and my tires up there, while wearing un-evently, are still in pretty good shape. The rears are a different story.

M20_fever wrote:Just have your tires remounted with the worn tread on the outside, lol.


Lol, I might have to do that for now! haha. My rear bushings are all shot anyway, so it's probably time to tear all that apart and fix.

I'm hoping Yoshi chimes in with negative effects of raising the subframe?
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Re: Lowered suspension corrections

Postby Nsquared97 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:06 am

Yeah you can use camber plates effectively 'backwards' to reverse the negative camber you gained. That will work for the front at least, not really sure what you can do with the rear. I know IE sells some camber adjustment kits for the rear, not sure if you could use those to get rid of excess negative camber though.

The real solution to this though? Get out and put that camber to good use, come do some autoX's. Or just give me some of that excess camber, I can put it to good use hahaha.
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Re: Lowered suspension corrections

Postby AustinR » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:38 am

Hahaha. I would love to give you some of this camber!
Isn't it hilarious that nobody makes a kit to correct this? haha. I guess anybody that lowers their car wants performance. Idk, maybe I'll leave it and put it to good use ;)
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Re: Lowered suspension corrections

Postby M20_fever » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:48 pm

best solution IMO.
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Re: Lowered suspension corrections

Postby Yoshi » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:25 pm

For the front, your option is to simply reverse mount camber plates. I've seen people make their own fixed camber plate that places the center of the shock way outside of the mounting hole for the strut tower. IMO if you have inside wear on the front, drive harder so it evens out.

In the rear, raising the subframe does 2 things. It makes the axles closer (usually not completely) back to parallel when at rest. It also makes your camber curve closer to stock. The side effect of this is that it puts your drive shaft at a slight upward angle. But, you're only killing the ujoint a bit faster instead of snapping axles. At least that is why most people do that mod.

There are diff lowering kits that put the drive shaft back in the stock spot. BUT this also makes your axles do the hitler salute as well. Anyway, it will still help even out your camber. Remember the camber curve. When you are excessively lowered, your camber gains on compression are exponential and you are already that much farther down that parabolic arc. Basically, if lowered, ALWAYS raise subframe FIRST.

on top of that, you have 2 more options in the rear. Eccentric bushings, and the IE weld in camber/toe adjusters. Eccentrics are gay. Don't do them. They go out of adjustment all the time and are known (I've never personally seen this) to squeak. The weld in plate, which another forum member has done recently, sometimes will go out of adjustment but not as often as the eccentric bushings. Alas, you really don't gain much adjustment. Toe is very important so don't just get the camber kit.

My suggestion is to do both. The raised subframe makes it a pain to adjust the weld in kit. I just lower one side of the subframe at a time to adjust them. Just set them to max and be happy.

There is one last mod you can do. Convert the rear trailing arms to spherical bearings and run the DTM style adjusters. You get super easy quick access and adjustment to your heart's content. But, it's like a $2k investment. I'd do it but I don't see how it's worth it lol.
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Re: Lowered suspension corrections

Postby Nsquared97 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:24 pm

AustinR wrote:Isn't it hilarious that nobody makes a kit to correct this? haha. I guess anybody that lowers their car wants performance.

You clearly haven't spent much time on R3V lol.
AustinR wrote:Idk, maybe I'll leave it and put it to good use ;)

Agreed with Tony, best option right here!
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Re: Lowered suspension corrections

Postby AustinR » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:14 pm

Thanks Yoshi! Great info.

Noob questions:
Since I don't yet know the rear suspension configuration to well, would it be stupid to replace the subframe bushings, etc., only to later install these.
Also, I looked on IE's website and it says "The brackets are welded to the inboard trailing arm pickup points" Is this on the subframe or somewhere else? What I'm getting at is I don't have a welder, or a plug to plug a welder in to. Can I remove the subframe and take it somewhere else and weld it up or am I actually welding something to the car? lol.
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Re: Lowered suspension corrections

Postby Yoshi » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:17 am

I'd do it all at once. the weld on parts go on the subframe itself so why rip out the subframe twice?
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Re: Lowered suspension corrections

Postby AustinR » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:05 am

Yeah I agree. I just crawled under there and took a gander to see how it all worked. My subframe has a little rust (surprise surprise). Should I look for a new one? It doesn't look bad. Maybe just a touch past what I would refer to as surface rust.
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Re: Lowered suspension corrections

Postby Nsquared97 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:27 am

Should be fine. I would just clean it up when you have it out and repaint the whole thing. I have some rust removal stuff that works pretty well, otherwise I have axcess to a sandblast, although I doubt a whole subframe will fit in it.
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Re: Lowered suspension corrections

Postby M20_fever » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:21 am

do a write up on the whole process! your going to need a welder top fix your rust. flux welders are dirt cheap now and are a must in any good tool collection.
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Re: Lowered suspension corrections

Postby AustinR » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:43 am

I'd love to get a welder. I'd buy one in a heartbeat, but I don't have a place to use it yet. I have a friend that has one, so I'll just use his in the mean time. When it comes time to fix the rust i'll buy one of my own and hopefully I'll have a garage space by then.

And I'll definitely be doing write ups. I should have an IE poly steering guibo coming today and I'm planning on doing a write up for that too.
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