No crank!

Why do I have to unlock my doors through my trunk?
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87e30
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Re: No crank!

Postby 87e30 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:13 pm

So I dug out my other starter. Still not sure if it's the one from the 87 or the 88. Has 3 wires. I think this one might be toast. I hooked the booster pack up to it earlier and it just clicked once. The gear moved out and stayed there, but I could push it back in by hand.
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325is (newest project)
Arktisblau 5-speed 86 325e (current DD)
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325e (parts car/LS1 swap?)
Gazellenbeige automatic 85 318i (70,000 miles)
Alpine white 5-speed 87 325is (my first e30, possibly for sale)
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Re: No crank!

Postby Nsquared97 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:12 am

Don't know when they switched from early model to late model for the starters, but the early ones had 3 wires, late ones had 4. A late model starter will work in an early model car though, that's what I am currently using.
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Re: No crank!

Postby 87e30 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:40 am

Yeah, I'm gonna test the starter in the car tomorrow and if it's bad I'm just gonna order a new (refurb) one. No time to hit the yards, and rusted up crap is selling on eBay for the same price as factory refurb'd.
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325is (newest project)
Arktisblau 5-speed 86 325e (current DD)
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325e (parts car/LS1 swap?)
Gazellenbeige automatic 85 318i (70,000 miles)
Alpine white 5-speed 87 325is (my first e30, possibly for sale)
99 Suburban
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Re: No crank!

Postby 87e30 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:48 am

Nsquared97 wrote:Don't know when they switched from early model to late model for the starters, but the early ones had 3 wires, late ones had 4. A late model starter will work in an early model car though, that's what I am currently using.


Yeah, I was reading up on that earlier today. I'm guessing the starter that's under my left foot right now is the one that came in my car and the one in my car is the one that came with the engine out of the 88 from the junkyard. I read the 4 wire will work when you remove a 3 wire, you just don't use the 4th wire.

Ok, so my wiring harness is original from the 87, so it shouldn't have the 4th wire on it, which from what someone above said (my mind is shot at this point from too much work and not enough sleep) would kill power to windows and sunroof while cranking. Well since that 4th wire is supposed to go to a relay, and a relay can be used to turn something off, it makes perfect sense that it could be used for that... But wait... I don't have that 4th wire, so now we've gotten absolutely nowhere. I still have no idea why my windows and roof don't work.

Unless of course I'm wrong about everything and my 87 engine had a 4 wire and the 88 engine had a 3 wire... Possible, but I don't really think so.
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325is (newest project)
Arktisblau 5-speed 86 325e (current DD)
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325e (parts car/LS1 swap?)
Gazellenbeige automatic 85 318i (70,000 miles)
Alpine white 5-speed 87 325is (my first e30, possibly for sale)
99 Suburban
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Re: No crank!

Postby Nsquared97 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:19 am

87 engine should definitely have a 3 wire unless it isn't original.
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Re: No crank!

Postby 87e30 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:34 am

Nsquared97 wrote:87 engine should definitely have a 3 wire unless it isn't original.


Yeah, but it wouldn't be the first car I've had that shouldn't have existed. According to Ford they never put a 4 speed manual in a 4cyl Crustang, erm Mustang in 1985. At least that's what 3 different dealerships told me, but I drove one until I blew up 1st gear by missing 3rd after bringing 2nd up to redline. Weird, as much as I hate Ford I actually really miss that car.

Anyway enough about that evil car maker. I'm not even gonna look at my car today. My back is feeling a LITTLE better than it did earlier. Actually that's a lie, it's feeling a SHITLOAD better than it did at 3:50pm. That's a whole 'nother story though. Hopefully I'll have some time to look at my car tomorrow and I'll see which starter I have and what wires are connected to it. 'bout to blow this pop stand for the night. My 13 hours is almost done.
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325is (newest project)
Arktisblau 5-speed 86 325e (current DD)
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325e (parts car/LS1 swap?)
Gazellenbeige automatic 85 318i (70,000 miles)
Alpine white 5-speed 87 325is (my first e30, possibly for sale)
99 Suburban
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Re: No crank!

Postby 87e30 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:59 am

AustinR wrote:Also, back to back 13's on Sat/Sun? That completely sucks.


I must have been really out of it when I posted that... I didn't work back to back 13 hour days... I worked back to back 15 hour days!!! 8am-11pm.

Anyway... I have a 4 wire starter in my car, but the 4th wire isn't hooked up. My spare is a 3 wire that might not work. The problem doesn't seem to be my starter anyway. I can jump the starter with a wrench when the key is in the on position.

I THOUGHT I fixed my car on Saturday. I went to the shop in the afternoon, went up to my car, tried the key and still didn't work. Tried windows and they didn't work. I searched online and found what I thought was the start relay (looked like the one in the picture I found online). I pulled it out and noticed the metal case had previously been pried open. I popped the case off of it and saw a very thin broken wire that was obviously soldered in by someone. I thought that was my problem right there and was going to try connecting a piece of metal between the 2 pieces of wire while starting the car. I put the relay back in, but before even trying to make the connection I figured I'd try the key again and it started right up. Windows and roof worked too. I thought all was good. I drove it home on Saturday, and drove it around all day Sunday, making several stops along the way.

Monday morning car wouldn't start again. I finally ended up push starting it in my driveway and was almost an hour late for work. Most of the way to work I had to hold my drivers door open to try to keep the windows clear because they were all fogged up and wouldn't open. The blower wasn't working either. Then all of a sudden the blower started working and so did the windows.

After work I popped the relay back out and soldered a new wire in where the other wire broke. Put the relay back in and still no start. I didn't feel like messing around with it in the dark so I started it with a wrench again. Oh, I did pull the main relay (the one on the left of the bank of 3 near the AFM) and noticed the contacts looked a little burnt. On the ride home I noticed the car wasn't bucking anymore like it's been doing for several months. That returned today though, so I have no idea why it drove fine yesterday. Also on the way home I realized that my ABS light was off for the first time since I bought the car. When I was in a safe place I slammed the brakes, and sure enough I have ABS now. Not that I want it though.

Does anybody have a picture of the start relay? Any other ideas of what I should be looking for? If it was just the no-start I would just install a push button somewhere and run it right to the starter, but I can't live with intermittent windows and blower motor.
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325is (newest project)
Arktisblau 5-speed 86 325e (current DD)
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325e (parts car/LS1 swap?)
Gazellenbeige automatic 85 318i (70,000 miles)
Alpine white 5-speed 87 325is (my first e30, possibly for sale)
99 Suburban
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Re: No crank!

Postby M20_fever » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:01 am

pretty odd, I'll look through some of my schematics and see if I can find the starter relay.
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Re: No crank!

Postby 87e30 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:37 am

I should mention Saturday and Sunday were quite a bit warmer outside than it is in the morning and when I go home from work. Not sure if that had anything at all to do with it.
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325is (newest project)
Arktisblau 5-speed 86 325e (current DD)
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325e (parts car/LS1 swap?)
Gazellenbeige automatic 85 318i (70,000 miles)
Alpine white 5-speed 87 325is (my first e30, possibly for sale)
99 Suburban
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Re: No crank!

Postby Yoshi » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:08 am

gonna have to go around testing continuity and resistance. seems like the PO might have screwed you. Push button start time maybe?
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Re: No crank!

Postby 87e30 » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:17 pm

Yesterday morning 65 degrees before work, car no start. After work, 69 degrees, car starts right up. This morning before work 67 degrees, car no start. We'll see what happens when I leave.

I already said I wouldn't mind the push button start, but I need my windows to work all the time, and blower motor too if possible. I know I can just bypass shit and figure new ways to make everything work, but I'd rather just fix whatever is wrong and have it all work correctly. Would be nice if I actually had TIME to work on it. Been working 12 hour days all week so far, and tomorrow I'm taking the train into NYC right after work. Eh, some day...
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325is (newest project)
Arktisblau 5-speed 86 325e (current DD)
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325e (parts car/LS1 swap?)
Gazellenbeige automatic 85 318i (70,000 miles)
Alpine white 5-speed 87 325is (my first e30, possibly for sale)
99 Suburban
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Re: No crank!

Postby M20_fever » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:57 am

2* difference makes it start or not start? That has to be a coincidence.
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Re: No crank!

Postby 87e30 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:27 pm

Looks like the warmer it is the better CHANCE it has of starting... Doesn't mean it'll always start when it's warmer. Still trying to figure it out.
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325is (newest project)
Arktisblau 5-speed 86 325e (current DD)
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325e (parts car/LS1 swap?)
Gazellenbeige automatic 85 318i (70,000 miles)
Alpine white 5-speed 87 325is (my first e30, possibly for sale)
99 Suburban
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Re: No crank!

Postby M20_fever » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:17 pm

have you checked the wiring for your OBC?
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North Suburban Sports Car Club C Prepared class champion 2012
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Re: No crank!

Postby 87e30 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:56 pm

M20_fever wrote:have you checked the wiring for your OBC?


No I haven't. What in that wiring could cause a no-crank and random window/roof working?

Saturday morning I had to jump the starter when I left home. I shut the car off several times throughout the day and every time I went back it started right up. Previously I had always tried starting it right after turning it off to see if things being warmed up had anything to do with it, but it would never start. I thought maybe it was working fine Saturday because it was warm, but had a chance to sit for a while each time (30 minutes to 3 hours) but not long enough for the temp gauge to go all the way back down. I didn't drive at all on Sunday, and this morning the car started right up. Intermittent problems are THE WORST! -yuush-
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325is (newest project)
Arktisblau 5-speed 86 325e (current DD)
Schwarz 5-speed 87 325e (parts car/LS1 swap?)
Gazellenbeige automatic 85 318i (70,000 miles)
Alpine white 5-speed 87 325is (my first e30, possibly for sale)
99 Suburban

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